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Tuner advice for a mild 24V w/auto


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Hey guys, its been a while since I've been on here. I still have my 99 ram sport and looking for some insight. The engine has about 252K on it with DDP1 injectors, cold air intake, Sinister diesel intake elbow, Air Dog 100 fuel pump, Edge EZ tuner, 3-piece exhaust manifold, and a newly added Industrial Injection Silver Bullet 62/74/12 turbo.

 

The truck runs good for the most part, but is laggy with low speed driving and spits smoke when the converter locks everytime. I've been told that this condition is because I need a better tuner that works with my turbo. There are several options on the market for the 2nd gen 24V trucks (Quadzilla, Edge, Smarty, etc). Each person seems to swear by what they are running and how its superior to the other. What I'm looking for is something that will work with what I have, allow more low speed drivability without the smoke, and still tow trailers under 10K with ease. Does anyone have a favorite tuner for the 98.5-02 trucks and if so, why? 

 

 

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Myself with second gen I would go with smarty touch with Egt probe and call it a day it would give you flexibility and drivability I had one on 06 it was perfect for me with 50 hp industrial injection sticks 

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It’s a matter of personal preference. I run the Edge stuff as it’s stupid simple. The issue you have is with the charger. 
 

RPM fixed most driveability issues. So those with autos and short gears and small tires have the easiest time with too much charger. 
 

the bottom line is that you can throw more fuel and timing at it and drive with a soft foot to help a bit. Or, make some changes to the truck or turbo. There’s only so much you can do within that system. 
 

lots of guys have gone larger charger off internet expert advice. And lots have regretted it. Especially those that tow. 
 

Dave

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40 minutes ago, Fishin2Deep4U said:

It’s a matter of personal preference. I run the Edge stuff as it’s stupid simple. The issue you have is with the charger. 
 

RPM fixed most driveability issues. So those with autos and short gears and small tires have the easiest time with too much charger. 
 

the bottom line is that you can throw more fuel and timing at it and drive with a soft foot to help a bit. Or, make some changes to the truck or turbo. There’s only so much you can do within that system. 
 

lots of guys have gone larger charger off internet expert advice. And lots have regretted it. Especially those that tow. 
 

Dave

Dave, thanks for the advice. This turbo was highly recommended by a popular diesel shop, even after questioning the compatibility with my trucks components. I now feel that my concerns were ignored and it was simply a way to create a domino effect of buying more parts in the future to correct what the turbo had caused. The response from said shop was to dump the EZ and install a Smarty programmer. This doesn’t make sense to me. The truck runs really well above 60mph. Around town, driveability is laggy and more smoke than when I had my stock HX-35. 

 

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2 hours ago, Albino99 said:

Dave, thanks for the advice. This turbo was highly recommended by a popular diesel shop, even after questioning the compatibility with my trucks components. I now feel that my concerns were ignored and it was simply a way to create a domino effect of buying more parts in the future to correct what the turbo had caused. The response from said shop was to dump the EZ and install a Smarty programmer. This doesn’t make sense to me. The truck runs really well above 60mph. Around town, driveability is laggy and more smoke than when I had my stock HX-35. 

 

 
I won’t go down the Smarty rabbit hole as I have long had issues with it. But, you end up at the same peak hp. Maybe Joe you get there will make a difference, but I doubt it. 
 

What is your complete setup? Getting, tire height, use, ect?

 

 Maybe there is an answer that will benefit your overall setup without dumping parts. 
 

I don’t believe any electronic changes will net the results you seek. There are lots of his that got caught up on the bigger is better thing. 
 

Dave

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Also to add to above ... what altitude your at , what type of towing Ie. mountains low speed curves, highway straight nice low altitude , etc etc 

 

all that info makes makes a huge difference as to any suggestions 

 

I’m in the too much turbo camp , all remedies are more fuel to light that but the real issue is if your in a larger metro area you’ll probably regret it as you’ve now become a smoke machine especially if you live at altitude and it magnifies during hot months 

 

some of us have been in the high HP camp trying to do exactly that ... bottom line a nice tower isn’t a high HP rig  , 350-400 is a sweet spot for towers 500+/- is NOT and a lot of wasted $$$ in find that out. 

 

rear end gear gear also makes a big difference. What’s your gear .. 3,54 or 4.10  along with the tire size asked above. 

Edited by GTroyer
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My personal preference would be a Edge CTS2 with juice. You get all your gauges and infinite programmability in a easy to use touchscreen package.  

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I appreciate the responses. My pickup is running 285/75/17 tires with factory 3.54 gears. The truck is also equipped with gauges (fuel, pyro, trans, boost). The injectors were replaced a couple of years ago with DDP1’s. I’ve been happy with the performance of the truck and wanted to see if I could cut down on smoke haze @ lower rpms when towing/hauling. This is when trouble started…….. messing with turbo sizing. To be completely honest, I mainly city/freeway drive with occasional trips over the mountain passes. I’m not after a HP goal or anything, just haul my slide-in camper comfortably with little to no smoke while keeping up with traffic.

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Sorry I'm going to throw another wrench or two in your wheels. Your turbo is what I would suggest for your truck.... So with that

 

I would switch to 4.10 gears.  If that doesn't get you what your after worse news, I'd be looking into a different converter and maybe valve body.

 

I wouldn't buy a tuner before these two, if I still wanted a tuner after I would be in the Smarty camp. 

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24 minutes ago, C Paul Go said:

Sorry I'm going to throw another wrench or two in your wheels. Your turbo is what I would suggest for your truck.... So with that

 

I would switch to 4.10 gears.  If that doesn't get you what your after worse news, I'd be looking into a different converter and maybe valve body.

 

I wouldn't buy a tuner before these two, if I still wanted a tuner after I would be in the Smarty camp. 

If that’s the case, I’ll go back to the HX-35 and deal with a little bit of haze. The truck runs good for what I do with it. Just trying to clean up some smoke. Maybe it’s like asking for a Harley-Davidson to be a quiet.😆

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52 minutes ago, Albino99 said:

If that’s the case, I’ll go back to the HX-35 and deal with a little bit of haze. The truck runs good for what I do with it. Just trying to clean up some smoke. Maybe it’s like asking for a Harley-Davidson to be a quiet.😆


Clearly, the easiest thing is to swap back into a HX35 if you have one on the shelf. 
 

Convertor with more slip would help unlocked for stop and go and slow speeds. But will do nothing when at lockup speeds or transient throttle response when towing steady state and tipping into the throttle. The converter will already be locked and you’ll be at 1:1. 
 

Most of us that want to tow and have power have gone to compounds. And knowing what I know now, I would have stayed with a smaller secondary along with the primary I am running. I have very low smoke, but a small towing set like BDs was the ticket for up to 500hp. Fast spool and great smoke and heat control. 
 

But for dealing with what you have, the hx35 will work although not perfect. And maybe a small S300 would be a better fit. Or a 3rd gen turbo swap could be an economical upgrade that will still offer decent spool. 
 

Lots of ways to get there from here. I ran the 285/ 3.54 combo for lots of years and it can be made to work. 
 

Dave

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Towing and a 2nd gen best upgrade I did was 4.10 gears..  And with the size injectors you did a HX35 should be able to keep up with temps in most cases. But if your climbing passes at low speeds needing to accelerate the gears will serve you best. 

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14 minutes ago, C Paul Go said:

Towing and a 2nd gen best upgrade I did was 4.10 gears..  And with the size injectors you did a HX35 should be able to keep up with temps in most cases. But if your climbing passes at low speeds needing to accelerate the gears will serve you best. 

 

I also did the 4.10 gear swap. That thing will pull the passes without coming out of OD if you let it. 

Lots of power where you want it, better towing economy. Was worth the swap. 

 

Dave

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I ended up calling the manufacturer of the turbo charger. I asked them what they thought about a 62/74/12 size turbo to be run with my DD1 injectors and EZ tuner. The answer was quick, "Absolutely not, that is too much and will be laggy for street driving". I told him a local shop spec'd out my setup with this. He told me that a 62/65/12 is much more appropriate for me. I do agree with that. I contacted another reputable diesel shop in my area and explained the same story........again, same reaction "Ah, yeah that's a bit much for your application. You need decent fueling/timing to spool up that 74". At this point, its me working things out with the shop that recommended & sold me the turbo. 

 

On the subject of gearing, I do agree with you guys that 4.10's would tow better. My pickup general runs empty in the bed with the occasional lumber yard run or going camping a handful of times each year with my slide-in camper. What kind of fuel mileage change did you see going from 3.54 to 4.10? 

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1 hour ago, Albino99 said:

I ended up calling the manufacturer of the turbo charger. I asked them what they thought about a 62/74/12 size turbo to be run with my DD1 injectors and EZ tuner. The answer was quick, "Absolutely not, that is too much and will be laggy for street driving". I told him a local shop spec'd out my setup with this. He told me that a 62/65/12 is much more appropriate for me. I do agree with that. I contacted another reputable diesel shop in my area and explained the same story........again, same reaction "Ah, yeah that's a bit much for your application. You need decent fueling/timing to spool up that 74". At this point, its me working things out with the shop that recommended & sold me the turbo. 

 

On the subject of gearing, I do agree with you guys that 4.10's would tow better. My pickup general runs empty in the bed with the occasional lumber yard run or going camping a handful of times each year with my slide-in camper. What kind of fuel mileage change did you see going from 3.54 to 4.10? 

 

Really, lost about 1.5mpg empty. I attribute this to wanting to do the same speed as before the swap and not the gearing itself. Many guys have reported very good mileage if they keep their foot out of it. 

The difference for me was with towing. Pulling my 5er, I went from 10ish to 14. No other changes. The difference was I was able to keep the rpm in the peak torque while going the speed I wanted. I like to tow around 62-65, I'm not into that high speed stuff with a trailer. That said, I got 8-10mpg pulling my boat at the same weight. So, mileage is largely subjective based on what you are towing/ hauling. 

 

If you are towing light and are mostly empty, ditch the 62 altogether. Even with a 65 turbine and a small housing, it's still too big IMO. Go back to a faster spooling charger that will give you several pounds of boost at cruise. You'll be happier all the way around and will actually have a better driving rig. If you tow heavy, or plan to, the gear swap makes sense and you can try to run a 62/65, but don't be surprised if you are still not thrilled. 


Dave

Edited by Fishin2Deep4U
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51 minutes ago, Fishin2Deep4U said:

 

Really, lost about 1.5mpg empty. I attribute this to wanting to do the same speed as before the swap and not the gearing itself. Many guys have reported very good mileage if they keep their foot out of it. 

The difference for me was with towing. Pulling my 5er, I went from 10ish to 14. No other changes. The difference was I was able to keep the rpm in the peak torque while going the speed I wanted. I like to tow around 62-65, I'm not into that high speed stuff with a trailer. That said, I got 8-10mpg pulling my boat at the same weight. So, mileage is largely subjective based on what you are towing/ hauling. 

 

If you are towing light and are mostly empty, ditch the 62 altogether. Even with a 65 turbine and a small housing, it's still too big IMO. Go back to a faster spooling charger that will give you several pounds of boost at cruise. You'll be happier all the way around and will actually have a better driving rig. If you tow heavy, or plan to, the gear swap makes sense and you can try to run a 62/65, but don't be surprised if you are still not thrilled. 


Dave

Dave, I was able to get everything sorted out with the shop I was dealing with. The plan is to swap out turbos are put in the 62/65/12. I’ll be looking into the 4.10 gears. I like to haul/tow stuff at the same speeds you described above. I agree with the concept of keeping the rpm in the peak torque range. I appreciate the insight and suggestions. 

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Hope it works out / believe you’ll be happier especially if you do a gear change along with the turbo

when you were normally at about 16/1700 you’ll now be at 2000/2150 in high gear /overdrive 

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62/65 will help but not going to be enough IMHO. 

 

HX-35 with a 12 housing would have been perfect. More air over that, a small primary for twins added.

 

Autos will always benefit with 4.10 gearing vs 3.54. The 3rd/OD shift is extremely tall. 

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3 hours ago, marksmith said:

62/65 will help but not going to be enough IMHO. 

 

HX-35 with a 12 housing would have been perfect. More air over that, a small primary for twins added.

 

Autos will always benefit with 4.10 gearing vs 3.54. The 3rd/OD shift is extremely tall. 

What about 3.73 or 3.91 gears a mix between? 
also what about a 6.7 turbo and standalone controller just curious how that would work out 

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42 minutes ago, J Dansie said:

What about 3.73 or 3.91 gears a mix between? 
also what about a 6.7 turbo and standalone controller just curious how that would work out 

6.7 turbo would be awesome if the controller works as advertised. I have no experience with them. 

 

As for gears, 3.73 isn't much of a change. May as well just put stock tires back on it. 4.10's or 4.30's are the only bandaid around that 3-4 ram drop for working trucks. IMHO of course. 

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19 hours ago, marksmith said:

62/65 will help but not going to be enough IMHO. 

 

HX-35 with a 12 housing would have been perfect. More air over that, a small primary for twins added.

 

Autos will always benefit with 4.10 gearing vs 3.54. The 3rd/OD shift is extremely tall. 

Just out of curiosity, what are the most popular size compounds people are using for 2nd gen tow rigs? 

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IMHO .. Can’t go wrong with the BD set up ( and I’m not a fan of BD) ..  no dog in this hunt . 

 

Piece of advice, stay away from old school set up they usually are not good tow sets ..  IE. 40/3B ( need not ask how I know lol ) 

Edited by GTroyer
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Hx35 over a k31

 

K27 (60mm turbo quick spooling) over an s300 

 

Industrial injections boxer 58 will eat up your fueling mods as a single. It's a 58mm 

 

BD small compounds are expensive but work well. 

 

 

There's lots of options. 

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