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Fishin2Deep4U

Do you need a DOT# or CDL?

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State of Washington reply so far. 

 

It's actually getting run up the ladder even further. This is the 3rd guy I have had a conversation with. 

 

"Actual weight is 13,600 lbs actual, boat on the trailer. 

 
GVRW on the trailer is 14,600 lbs. 
 
GVRW on the tow vehicle is 12,300 lbs - Ram 3500 SWR
 
I have reviewed all the available info. If I was not towing oversize and my permits did not require stopping at the scales, I would just run it. However, the possibility of an infraction now has me concerned enough I need some kind of documentation either way. I will say this has been much more difficult to get a clear answer on than I expected. While the boat may be considered an RV, the boat trailer is not. If it were, I could just fall under RV use and again, tow it like I do my 35' fifth wheel. "

 

"Hello Dave,

If the enforcing agencies pull you over because they think you need a cdl you just might get that ticket.

It is much better to get you CDL and avoid the trouble."

 

 

More to come I think. 

 

Dave

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15 hours ago, thumper 549 said:

Note this (unless they have changed it)  You are allowed up to eleven feet wide on two-lane roads without Pilot cars...

They are not too concerned.

Next- Cops have a REALLY hard time measuring a boat width on the side of the road...(even at a scale house) ..plus they will ask you to hold the dumb end ...Are .you going to add to it or make sure you are under the shear?

   I was not EVER pulled over and asked for anything with a smaller boat on even if it was pushing eleven and a little more.

 

 

 

Up to 12' before a pilot car is needed. Can also move at night without any real issue in Washington if under 12'. 

 

Not worried about getting stopped going down the road. I know a few troopers (a fishing partner recently retired). They aren't looking for non-commercial oversize violations. They admitted they don't even notice wide boats due to bow flare. More importantly, if it's being operated in a safe manner, they would rather put their resources into easier, faster stops. 

If the load looks sketchy, then you will most likely get stopped. Swaying, things not secured, cargo at odd angles, ect. But just a boater going down the road they don't worry about. 

 

However, the same retired guy has an oversize boat as well. Got stopped north of Longview and was measured, asked for permits, ect. No talk about a CDL. He's never given it any thought either. 

 

Dave

 

 

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3 hours ago, Scotty_ said:

If you have sleep apnea and it’s documented, you must have a medical certificate from you doctor and it also has to be noted on the usdot physical. 
 

Dave, I admire your due diligence. 
if you’re pulling your own registered property, following and abiding by the rules and not doing anything commercially and nothing denotes you’re engaged in commercial commerce...have fun.

stay under 26,001, get a permit for OS and have proof you’re not commercially registered in any way.

my insurance commercially as mentioned here was well over $6k/yr but I was doing it for a living. With a one ton I was exempt from IFTA as well.

 

Oh, forgot this part. No matter what your truck is rated to carry and/or tow...they can go for the smallest number which is usually the tire capacity. FYI

 

I have sleep apnea. Sort of. I really do not need my machine any longer as with the diet change, I lost some weight and the snoring is about half of what it used to be. My last sleep study I had to demand a machine. They were not going to give it to me as I was below borderline. But Louise likes her sleep and it stops the snoring totally. 

 

I was unaware that had to be claimed. I did know abut the diabetes thing. Since mine is completely diet controlled, that's a non-issue as well. I understand that if you require insulin injections they a=will not issue a CDL.

 

Dave

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8 minutes ago, Woodenhead said:

My permits say over 11’ needs pilot on 2 lane highway.

 

I wonder if it's regional.

 

Both my 3 day coming back from Michigan and my monthly permits say 12'.

 

Dave

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4 minutes ago, Fishin2Deep4U said:

 

I wonder if it's regional.

 

Both my 3 day coming back from Michigan and my monthly permits say 12'.

 

Dave


WaDot form 560-002 is attached to my permits. BTW Dave, I’m glad you’re trying to sort this out. If nothing else it’s good discussion.
560-002.PDF

 

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1 hour ago, Woodenhead said:


WaDot form 560-002 is attached to my permits. BTW Dave, I’m glad you’re trying to sort this out. If nothing else it’s good discussion.
560-002.PDF

 

 

Interesting. I'll have to dig deeper into mine. 

 

I wonder if I will see something different permitting under the new truck. I am still running on my old permit. Well, until 11-1. I am due for another. 

 

Dave

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In the end, we have to solve it so we all feel good sleeping at night.

I have had plenty of arguments with scale houses about O.S. law and had to show them I was right.

The regress is what you need as an Rv hauler of your boat.

The Medical for CDL is now expensive.

CDL  stands for commercial...I would be inclined to call my DOT attorney and get git his persuasion of it,  and I encourage you guys do the same.

If you have a letter in your pocket from him explaining the law to badge carrying perpetrators with guns at a scale house -you would get zero for an argument.

This I think is what will solve it for you.

I am signing off on this topic .

    The big one is Over axle!    

Don't get caught for that.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Scotty_ said:

Dave, I’m the same way now.  Not nearly as bad as it was but I honestly like using the cpap. 

 

I do sleep better with mine! I do not want to give it up. I am fully rested after only a few hours of sleep. 

 

Dave

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Just had my CDL medical. Need one every 5 years.. It was $175.00 Canadian money..

I pretty much am down to only running a semi for 10 weeks in the spring,but once in a while will haul something for a friend who wants or needs a few days out of the truck.

A class 1 CDL IN BC also allows me to drive a highway bus coach which I do a few times a year at church...

Keep at it Dave.. It’s not any fun pulling into the scales no matter where you live.

Sometimes they are slow and bored,I hate seeing the red light and Park,bring papers sign go on! 
When they find out I only have 30,000 lbs in plants the person usually asks “ Why the big truck” to which I reply, a guy my age has to be comfortable! Always brings a good chuckle... 

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Howdy All,

 

As my truck is no longer a truck but a legally registered "Motor Home" the CDL thing does not relate to me.  However, the term "Not For Hire" has been mentioned and I think it needs some clarification.  Most of us who use a class 7-8 that is registered as an RV, do NOT use the term not for hire in any lettering that may be on our trucks.  Many are mistaken thinking that the term not for hire means that the truck is not used for commercial purposes, this may or may NOT be true.  Many commercial use only trucks are "Not For Hire" in that they are contracted to a specific company and haul ONLY for that company such as Walmart for example thus the truck is NOT for hire to haul loads for any other entity.  In the group of HDT drivers I know personally that use their trucks as an RV, a number of them have worked in enforcement of the commercial trucking laws, these folks discourage using the term not for hire on an RV as it will only confuse the issue if an unknowing LEO pulls you over for whatever reason, many LEO's who are not familiar with the commercial side of law enforcement seeing not for hire on a truck will "ASSUME" it is hauling commercial goods for a specific company.  The reasoning of these retired LEO's is why clutter the issue, if your not commercial stay away from ANYTHING that may cloud the issue and cause you trouble.   My first HDT-RV, did have not for hire on the side, it was there when I bought the truck, my present HDT-RV, the Pete, does NOT have not for hire on the side and I will NOT be putting it on there.

 

Dave

Edited by mr. cob
cuz i cant fukin sqel
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Okay,

 

circling back around. The State sen me another document that more clearly defines what a commercial vehicle is. At least in print that can be used with LE.

 

This is the same general information that has been circulated. But, the State tells me this should make it clear I do not need a CDL. However, if I accept any money or enter into any competition with the boat that may have any prize associated with it, I MUST have a CDL. I don't know how they would police that, I guess I'll have to leave the wrap off the boat that says sport fishing for hire on it. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13yHg0f7ZVXIujzcwXmkW5wzaJx6k3IB7/view?usp=sharing

 

This is the most official document I have seen. 

 

I have also started this same process for Oregon, the only other place I am likely to tow the boat into. So, for now, I'll keep a copy of this with my permit, keep a copy of the conversation with the State DOL officer and hope for the best. I will still have to have permits, I will still have to stop at open scales and be required to have oversize load signs on. I know some disagree with this, that's fine. But unless you are going to pay for a wrongful death suit, this is the way I must go. For me. 

 

Dave

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Assume your relieved and can sleep now 👍😁

 

if if I was towing as regular as you are I’d tend to be a bit more cautious also , don’t blame you one damnnn bit 

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3 hours ago, Fishin2Deep4U said:

Okay,

 

circling back around. The State sen me another document that more clearly defines what a commercial vehicle is. At least in print that can be used with LE.

 

This is the same general information that has been circulated. But, the State tells me this should make it clear I do not need a CDL. However, if I accept any money or enter into any competition with the boat that may have any prize associated with it, I MUST have a CDL. I don't know how they would police that, I guess I'll have to leave the wrap off the boat that says sport fishing for hire on it. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13yHg0f7ZVXIujzcwXmkW5wzaJx6k3IB7/view?usp=sharing

 

This is the most official document I have seen. 

 

I have also started this same process for Oregon, the only other place I am likely to tow the boat into. So, for now, I'll keep a copy of this with my permit, keep a copy of the conversation with the State DOL officer and hope for the best. I will still have to have permits, I will still have to stop at open scales and be required to have oversize load signs on. I know some disagree with this, that's fine. But unless you are going to pay for a wrongful death suit, this is the way I must go. For me. 

 

Dave

Howdy Dave,

 

If you have something on the side of your boat that says, sport fishing boat for hire, YOU ARE commercial, if you participate in ANY activity that you MIGHT be compensated for in ANY way, a ribbon or a trophy is considered compensation by the State, you ARE commercial. it really is that simple and its that way in every State that I am aware of.  Hobby car racers and hobby rodeo riders are being caught up in this because many of them use class 7-8 HDT's to haul their race cars or horse trailers.  If you have "Joe Bob's racing team" on the side of your truck or trailer or "Sally Anne's Barrel Racers" on the side of your truck or trailer you ARE considered commercial even if you go broke in your participation of those sports.  The law is starting to crack down on such folks and the fines can be pretty darn HIGH.  Putting "Not For Hire" on the side of your truck-trailer is such a case will do you no good and will actually attract attention to your rig.

 

Dave

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42 minutes ago, mr. cob said:

Howdy Dave,

 

If you have something on the side of your boat that says, sport fishing boat for hire, YOU ARE commercial, if you participate in ANY activity that you MIGHT be compensated for in ANY way, a ribbon or a trophy is considered compensation by the State, you ARE commercial. it really is that simple and its that way in every State that I am aware of.  Hobby car racers and hobby rodeo riders are being caught up in this because many of them use class 7-8 HDT's to haul their race cars or horse trailers.  If you have "Joe Bob's racing team" on the side of your truck or trailer or "Sally Anne's Barrel Racers" on the side of your truck or trailer you ARE considered commercial even if you go broke in your participation of those sports.  The law is starting to crack down on such folks and the fines can be pretty darn HIGH.  Putting "Not For Hire" on the side of your truck-trailer is such a case will do you no good and will actually attract attention to your rig.

 

Dave

 

I completely agree with what you are saying. If the state had a clear omission for my situation, such as with RVs and horse trailers, it would have been much easier.

 

But now that I have enough stuff to jamb in my pocket, I'm far less worried. It would suck to get halfway to the coast for a fishing trip only to be parked waiting on a CDL licensed driver. 

 

As a note, there are many pickup and flatbed guys getting caught up in the CDL issue as well. I believe they were calling them safety checks. But, the drivers would tell the cop they were going to x- rodeo or hauling for someone else. Immediately got popped for no CDL. In California, a modified bed (flatbed) is no longer considered a pickup and is subject to commercial vehicle laws. Ths is most common is on Donner Pass. The CHP is posting all the time about people skipping the scales, CDLs, ect.

 

I'm sure with pickups having higher and higher ratings that its only a matter of time before the state sells to regulate (profit) off the motoring public. 

 

I feel good about where I am at for now. But I can see a day coming where certain weight vehicles will require a different license. JMO

 

Dave

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1 hour ago, GTroyer said:

Assume your relieved and can sleep now 👍😁

 

if if I was towing as regular as you are I’d tend to be a bit more cautious also , don’t blame you one damnnn bit 

 

Yeah, for now!

 

Dave

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Dot# is needed when you are towing for hire. If you are just hauling for yourself it will depend on each state. Anyone can get a wide load permit but again it depends on the state. I believe WA is more strick when it comes to towing over 10k lbs.

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8 minutes ago, livingez_123 said:

Dot# is needed when you are towing for hire. If you are just hauling for yourself it will depend on each state. Anyone can get a wide load permit but again it depends on the state. I believe WA is more strick when it comes to towing over 10k lbs.

 

I actually have a DOT# for a couple of states. It was required for those permits. I do know it will not be required in my case. 

 

Dave

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I miss the good old days if you owned it you could drive it. 
in Utah if it’s related to a business it’s commercial and cdl yet same gooseneck owning everything is non cdl 

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So just for my own understanding because I'm a little confused, where does a small truck/trailer fall? Like say a 1/2ton truck pulling a competition racecar but it's a 2000lb Miata on 2000lb trailer. Say the who combo is under 10,000lbs buts it is a competition vehicle. Or say a 3/4ton vehicle with trailer that's 12-15,000lbs combined and used for competition.

 

Does all this mess only apply if you're going to be over 20,000lbs or 26,000lbs or something like that?

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So just for my own understanding because I'm a little confused, where does a small truck/trailer fall? Like say a 1/2ton truck pulling a competition racecar but it's a 2000lb Miata on 2000lb trailer. Say the who combo is under 10,000lbs buts it is a competition vehicle. Or say a 3/4ton vehicle with trailer that's 12-15,000lbs combined and used for competition.
 
Does all this mess only apply if you're going to be over 20,000lbs or 26,000lbs or something like that?
26,001 lbs is the tripping point where a CDL is required for commercial use.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

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I completely agree with what you are saying. If the state had a clear omission for my situation, such as with RVs and horse trailers, it would have been much easier.
 
But now that I have enough stuff to jamb in my pocket, I'm far less worried. It would suck to get halfway to the coast for a fishing trip only to be parked waiting on a CDL licensed driver. 
 
As a note, there are many pickup and flatbed guys getting caught up in the CDL issue as well. I believe they were calling them safety checks. But, the drivers would tell the cop they were going to x- rodeo or hauling for someone else. Immediately got popped for no CDL. In California, a modified bed (flatbed) is no longer considered a pickup and is subject to commercial vehicle laws. Ths is most common is on Donner Pass. The CHP is posting all the time about people skipping the scales, CDLs, ect.
 
I'm sure with pickups having higher and higher ratings that its only a matter of time before the state sells to regulate (profit) off the motoring public. 
 
I feel good about where I am at for now. But I can see a day coming where certain weight vehicles will require a different license. JMO
 
Dave
I have actually had to go rescue a friend of mine who was driving a F550 with a pintle hitch trailer. The combined GVW's exceeded 26,001lbs and the officer made him call a CDL holder to finish the trip which was another 8 miles.

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