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Fishin2Deep4U

Do you need a DOT# or CDL?

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Figured it was time to argue about when a class A CDL is required, and not. 

 

The law is somewhat ambiguous. But, after reading all of the states resource material, it looks like anything other what can easily be identified add an RV is potential target. 

 

You can run a 60000 lb RV with nothing more than a driver's license. 

 

If you type a livestock trailer and your GVRW is 26001 or more, you may be required to have a CDL.

 

The reason I have looked into this is due to my boat. Based on the numbers, I have now achieved that 26k+ realm. Now i know i will most likely not have to worry. In what situations would i?

 

In my case, i am required to get an oversize permit. I have to stop at all open scales. At what point do i have top have a DOT number and possibly, a CDL?

 

Thoughts?  Arguments? Tuna fish tacos? 

 

Dave 

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Oh, my combined GVWR is 26,925.

 

Dave

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I believe you only need a DOT number if your vehicle is for hire. I thought you only needed a CDL if the GVWR (not GCWR) was over 26,000. That was the case when I bought my dump truck, had to be under 26klbs GVWR or I’d need a CDL. 
RVs are exempt from all of this, case and point Mr.Cobs mega hauler. 
 

Don’t know about gross combined with a boat for personal use. I’d like to know as well as I’m headed that direction one day as well. 

Edited by Woodenhead
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I used to own a trucking business, so some of what you say is true, not true, and grey.

I hauled almost exclusively O.S  - Big, Fat, Tall and wide.

As stated -no DOT /MC number required to haul your own RV/Boat dwn the road...

The Caveat - for RV requirements each state is a little different. 

States are usually with no ballbusting and quite reciprocal.

Farmers are exempt from a whole lot of laws within a given radius.

Each state O.S permits are a little different.

I will presume you are in and talking about WA  state?

How wide is your boat? Are you traveling the same route all the time? or different parts of the state?

You are allowed 8-1/2 wide in Wa... (federal law too)

If it was me and I was under 10 wide I would play stupid and just go, and Never role up  on a scale in Wa state.

Most folks will never know the difference.

The most they could ever do to you anyways anyway is tell you to get a permit.

(never go asking for problems )  The moment you hang an OS sigh on your vehicle you will be under scrutiny. 

 

 

 Scales are for commercial vehicles and again some states require pickup trucks to stop over so much tonnage, others do not.

Last I knew Wa, ID , Or do not want a RV across thor scales..But I moved out of there over te years ago.

 

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41 minutes ago, thumper 549 said:

I used to own a trucking business, so some of what you say is true, not true, and grey.

I hauled almost exclusively O.S  - Big, Fat, Tall and wide.

As stated -no DOT /MC number required to haul your own RV/Boat dwn the road...

The Caveat - for RV requirements each state is a little different. 

States are usually with no ballbusting and quite reciprocal.

Farmers are exempt from a whole lot of laws within a given radius.

Each state O.S permits are a little different.

I will presume you are in and talking about WA  state?

How wide is your boat? Are you traveling the same route all the time? or different parts of the state?

You are allowed 8-1/2 wide in Wa... (federal law too)

If it was me and I was under 10 wide I would play stupid and just go, and Never role up  on a scale in Wa state.

Most folks will never know the difference.

The most they could ever do to you anyways anyway is tell you to get a permit.

(never go asking for problems )  The moment you hang an OS sigh on your vehicle you will be under scrutiny. 

 

 

 Scales are for commercial vehicles and again some states require pickup trucks to stop over so much tonnage, others do not.

Last I knew Wa, ID , Or do not want a RV across thor scales..But I moved out of there over te years ago.

 

 

I started thinking more about this due to some recent posts in CA and livestock trailers. If the weight thresholds are met and you have a "modified" bed, you are a CMV (commercial motor vehicle).

 

My boat is right at 10'. At the scale house in Idaho, I thought I was done for when they started asking for all.my info. I will not haul without permits. I may without signage. Bottom line, my insurance is very specific. Probably because of all those years guiding.

 

My routes are usually the same. All over the west side of state, but a freeway usually gets me there. 

 

Technically, I could get popped under the commerce stipulation. Just like recreational drag racers, intering into derbies. Winnings count as income. As seen in the sportsmen race car guys.

 

Most of this is hypothetical. But, if I am flying my oversize signs, properly permitted, does Washington state and the Fedreal DOT consider me a RV, or something else? Is it open to interpretation? How about when I trailer down the Oregon coast?

 

I understand some of it's splitting hairs. I get that. But that's where I live. Half a micron at a time.

 

I have spoken to the state about this and will get in touch with the State Patrol- Enforcement folks. I can also hit up some of the cops at the Christmas party that used to be troopers.

 

I'm trying to find the black and white. Dont mind doing what it takes to stay legal. No matter how goofy the laws are. 

 

Dave

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If you are just going over the line in ID, you get off B4 the scale house and run along behind it .

Salci way? (or something like that.)

I was never asked a question about it -as there are so many boat shops through there no one cared.  ( I hauled the big boats with hydraulic trailers)

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A long-time a go -Wa state they had more strict laws about OS  The curfews were stricter. could not run at night, etc etc.

Boats under 10 feet  I just did not flag up.

Never got bothered.

If you are at 10 wide you prolly are at about 30 long...a small boat as far as dOT is concerned.. 

There are literally hundreds of slightly oversize small boats being hauled around the state on the weekends by their owners...

No one ever cared.

Do as you wish

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1 hour ago, thumper 549 said:

If you are just going over the line in ID, you get off B4 the scale house and run along behind it .

Salci way? (or something like that.)

I was never asked a question about it -as there are so many boat shops through there no one cared.  ( I hauled the big boats with hydraulic trailers)

 

Seltice way  ... runs from the west side of Post Falls to Coeur d'Alene dead ends on Government Way in Cd'A 

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My boat’s also 10’ wide. I always get a permit and hang signs when I bring it to the lake in the spring and home in the fall. I’m just hauling through the desert but I figure one day some dumbass is going to wreck trying to pass me, then try and blame me. At least with signs and a permit it’s legit. That being said, I know many guys at the dock just haul it, more so out of ignorance. 
 

When I bought the boat I had a Wa permit but not one for Idaho. We pulled the boat from Spokane into Idaho to launch for a test run and got flagged into the Idaho scale house. I was nervous but fortunately they were doing invasive species checks and those guys were behind the scale house so we bypassed the scale. Coming back into Wa I stopped at the scale and sat for a few minutes then was green lighted and sent on my way. Never talked to anyone but I assume I sat there just long enough for them to run my plate and see if I bought a permit. No big deal, I have nothing to hide and will do this as legitimately as I can. 

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Honestly I would stop in the scale without a boat maybe a picture they would enforce and guide you to what’s required and when it’s no longer personal and considered for profit I’ve stopped and asked questions in Utah and Idaho very informative I also do it without load for good reason. I think California is just way out there. I remember 20 years ago if it had a flatbed it was a truck if it had a box it was “ pickup “ that’s why lots of guys had the 2 ton trucks with pickup beds on them. 
 

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If I were still under my business, I probably wouldn't be sweating this. It would be obvious how to proceed. 

The issue is always how are you legally responsible in the case of an accident and what are you required to have to not be instantly at fault. The oversize thing just makes it tougher. And I am sure that a heavy, legal width load would not be much of an issue. But with people getting ticketed for a variety of reasons, I figured it was a good conversation to have.

 

Dave

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6 minutes ago, stroketeck said:

i pulled a 28' glasply from idaho to wa 10'11" wide and 18.000 lb . just the oversize permit and sign. and no stopping at scales. 

 

From what I have read from others is that an oversize permit for my application in Idaho rarely requires a scale stop, per the permit. Lights/ flags/ signs, yes. But seems to hit or miss on if you will have to scale. 

Again, not trying to say anyone is right or wrong or argue any point. I'm just relaying my experiences and trying to formulate my future plans. 

 

Dave

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1 minute ago, thumper 549 said:

Boat 1.jpg

boat 2.jpg

 

 

 

Funny thing is, Cap Sante is one of our customers. 

LOL

 

Dave

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I sold out about 14 years ago.....Shawn might still be there.

I moved a 120 foot boat for them one time

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Glad you’re checking

sometimes it comes down to the interpretation of the officer which can be really frustrating 

I had that happen one time. I had the badge number and name of the officer that told me I was legal

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You are right ..if you do not know the law they will herd you around and invent shet that is wrong.

I could tell ya a million scale house stories some too funny some so stupid.

Regular state patrol does know  OS law at all,,..they are just there for the speedy boys .

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Scotty hit the nail on the head

 

any officer can make a determination as to safe or not and they can also run you to the nearest scale house , he may or may not be right but he has that shield to hide behind. He can even write you paper [ticket] but that is fightable in court as the actual the law.

 

actual law be damned 

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So, 

 

my first repose back has been from FMCSA (Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration).

 

Asking as a private citizen, no commerce conducted, ect, ect.

"Due to the initial weight of the tow vehicle, the trailer weight in excess of 10,000 lbs and the combined weight of over 26,001 you are required to have a class A CDL. Some states offer a non-commercial CDL for these instances. Please refer to your local Department of Licensing for further clarification."

So, the federal side says it's required. But essentially defers to the state. And we all know that states are different in their requirements. I think the best one to contact is California. Even though I do not plan to tow there, it seems they are setting policy on the West Coast to some extent. Or at least a vision of what our future may look like. 

I have sent e-mails to the state and the State Patrol. The State patrol forwarded back to the state. I need to get in touch with someone doing enforcement for the State patrol. Maybe a cold call one day is the answer. I would like to have a handful of RCWs and any other documentation in the tow vehicle "just in case".

 

Dave

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3 hours ago, Fishin2Deep4U said:

 

"Due to the initial weight of the tow vehicle, the trailer weight in excess of 10,000 lbs and the combined weight of over 26,001 you are required to have a class A CDL. Some states offer a non-commercial CDL for these instances. Please refer to your local Department of Licensing for further clarification."

 

Am I understanding that correctly? So anyone with a private trailer weighing over 10k and a CGVW of over 26k needs a class A CDL? that can't be right can it? 

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Just now, SMOKN05 said:

 

Am I understanding that correctly? So anyone with a private trailer weighing over 10k and a CGVW of over 26k needs a class A CDL? that can't be right can it? 

 

The exception is for RVs. 

 

A bot is not an RV as it's towed on a specialized trailer. 

 

That's what they told me. But the hunt continues for any kind of accurate and physical info. Seems to me they can just do what they want and you take your chances when you are towing. 

 

Dave

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So, 

 

I just a response from Washington State DOL. 

 

They referred me back to this link posted above.

 

https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdlrequired.html

 

And I don't fall under the automatic exemption class becasue the boat is not considered an RV and the trailer is not part of the boat. It is an implement used for hauling. 

 

https://www.dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/cdlexempt.html

 

 

I have sent a response asking for more clarification. This is a joke. 

 

Dave

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