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Ol Blue

'04 2500 shudder under load

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Hi all.

 

My nephew has a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 with Cummins, automatic transmission, and 4x4. It's the 4 door version long bed.

 

He got it with 30,000 miles on the odometer, it now has 150,000 miles.

 

Every since he got it, the pickup would shake when towing or hauling. It is worse at low speeds but is still detectable all the times if you pay attention. It does it a little bit without a load on it too.

 

I looked at all u joints, center carrier for the driver shaft was replaced a couple of years ago and seems fine. Drive line looks straight. The shudder starts right from a stop in 1st  gear before converter is locked and continues, so I don't expect the converter.

 

Does the '04 have an extreme issue with axle wrap?

 

The transmission support has a "V" shaped plate that rides on a matching "V" shaped bracket that is bolted to the cross member. It is not hard to separate them or move the transmission sideways with a small pry bar. The transmission "V" and cross member "V" are not bolted together through the rubber isolation pads. Seems weird, but there is a cross brace on the cross member bracket that goes above the transmission "V" so they can't come apart. Anyway, the transmission mount seems to be the only thing that could cause this issue. 

 

Has anyone had a similar issue of shuddering under load when power is applied?

 

Thanks!

 

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Could be flex plate or converter is my bet.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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I had a similar problem and it was the center carrier bearing... twice.

The replacement did not last very long. It felt ok when moving it around and no rips in the rubber.

It would shudder at take off and could feel a vibration at hwy speeds. Chased bearings, u joints and tires.

Unit bearings ok? 

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Thanks guys. When we had the carrier bearing replaced a few years ago, it made no difference

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Go pro camera watch for flexing and distortion. Also check driveline angles I believe the front end behind carrier and the rear axle need to match or can cause vibration/shudder 

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Was this truck lifted at all? Yogi is right, if the driveline angles are wrong you will have a shudder all the time no matter what you do. Sometimes people put shims in under the leaf springs and they are not needed. 

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There used to be a TSB out about this. My memory isn't what it used to be but it I believe there is a 1/4" shim that goes under the carrier bearing to effectively move it lower. Basically a piece of flat bar with 2 holes in it. I'm pretty sure it is axle wrap causing the issue. I shimmed mine and put traction bar on it. Never really had the issue, just wanted traction bars. LOL!

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TSB 03-003-04. I'll do some guesstimating on the angles and try that.

 

Thanks all!

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3rd Gen's had incorrect driveline angles on many of the trucks. It caused rapid Ujoint failure. Dealer had shims available for the center support bearing to correct it. I had to shorten my center support bracket ¾" to get my angles right. Never had a Ujoint failure after that.

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Raising the center carrier makes more sense to me since the front of the axle rotates up under torque. Lowering it would seem to put the u-joints on the rear section at even more of a bind....

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How did you measure u-joint angles? I'm having a difficult time trying to go by the angles in the TSB. 

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on my 2005 QCLB the shudder never went away. i pulled a rear driveshaft complete out of another truck and swapped it into mine. my shudder didnt change. i lowered and raised the carrier bearing with no change. in the end i just dealt with it. i gave up.....but i always kinda figured it was axle wrap causing it, it only happened when under load and in the first 2 gears on my truck, once i got into 3rd gear it went away.  this BD diesel video really shows axle wrap. 

 

 

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This might be why guys like going to a one piece driveline. 
 

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SRT6 has a set of traction bars less the frame mounts in the market place. But I'm not sure traction bars are going to work of road. Not hard trail climbing, but some pretty bad logging roads. ???

 

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36 minutes ago, Ol Blue said:

SRT6 has a set of traction bars less the frame mounts in the market place. But I'm not sure traction bars are going to work of road. Not hard trail climbing, but some pretty bad logging roads. ???

 

I loved mine especially in those situations. Washboard roads, Kelley humps, ruts, etc. 

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On 6/28/2020 at 8:56 AM, Ol Blue said:

Raising the center carrier makes more sense to me since the front of the axle rotates up under torque. Lowering it would seem to put the u-joints on the rear section at even more of a bind....

 

It really depends on the truck. My 2wd that was loaded more often than not didn't have enough angle on the joints. In a 4x4 they use blocks to get the extra 2" out of the rear axle. In the end you can end up with not enough angle on the front joint, about the right angle on the center joint and not enough on the rear. The rear axle wrap only happens when your loaded or under hard acceleration, the rest of time it's just sitting there looking stupid until you lay into it again or......if you shorten the center support your putting more angle on the center joint and almost eliminating the angle on the first joint. You can use a magnetic angle gauge to find all of you angles but you need to do it with it's normal load and unloaded. Anything less than 1deg is going to eat joints. I try to shoot for 1 to 3deg you can run up to 6deg but it will start to kill the milage you get out of them. After I dialed in my angles the current joints have over 250k miles on them and I highly doubt they will need to be replaced any time soon.

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