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New oils and related failures.


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#1 Fishin2Deep4U

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:27 AM

...

Edited by Fishin2Deep4U, 03 January 2008 - 10:45 PM.


#2 GTroyer

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:31 AM

your talking crankcase oil not fuel oil correct

Edited by willyslover, 18 October 2007 - 10:45 AM.


#3 jcasper

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:34 AM

Bus Engines?


What Oil? Like the new Delo?

#4 Diesel Freak

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:42 AM

What failed on the engine

#5 bhaner

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:50 AM

Not good... I am a BIG fan of the Dello 400 15/40.

I might have to go back to Amsoil if it is going to be a problem.

I also have a problem with how much they rased the price after the low emission change.

#6 jcasper

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:06 AM

I just sent an email to my dad, I will call him in a few when I head to the dentist.


My Dad used to be Supervisor of the School district down here. Before he retired a few years ago they had over 50 cummins and quite a few DT466's in their fleet.

I just want to ask him if he has talked to any of the guys and if they have seen any problems.

#7 jcasper

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:20 AM

Hey, maybe with this info my 2 year old delo on the shelf will go up in value. 783.gif

#8 md_lucky_13

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:27 AM

During one of my first oil samples I used the Valvoline Synpower additive.

I had excellent wear numbers during the interval, but the moly was sky high. I read an article some time ago about cummins warning against moly as a friction reducer in their engines. If I can find that article, I will bring it back.

I didn't have any ill effects myself, so I would probably consider doing that again.

I think EVERY engine will benefit from a bypass filter. I'm currently running an interval with the new Amsoil 5/40 CJ oil. I will probably be doing an analysis very soon, and I will share those results with everyone interested.

From what I have seen so far, Shell Rotella T 5/40 at Wallyworld is the best band for the buck oil you can get. I will probably go back to that oil next interval.

Edited by md_lucky_13, 19 October 2007 - 09:03 AM.


#9 jcasper

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 01:30 PM

Talked to my Dad.

He is going to call his friend over at the bus garage and ask him. He did say though that a few months ago they did lose a Cummins in a bus. He does not know what caused it, but after threatening to never buy a Cummins powered bus again they covered it.

I will let you know what he finds out.

#10 carl20320

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 06:33 PM

Did anyone read the article in the last issue of TDR? The CJ4 oils were the worst of the bunch. All had low TBN and poor additive packages to comply with the low ash requirements of the 07 and newer engines.

The samples were analyzed and only results were shown to the expert they used. He hit most right on the head. Basically, unless you have a particulate filter, run a CI4 or, better yet, a CI4+ oil.

Cummins has had some issues with tappet/cam failures with some of their larger engines running on the CJ4 oils. I don't know if it will carryover into our engines but why take the chance.

Carl

#11 steved

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 06:36 PM

QUOTE(Fishin2Deep4U @ Oct 18 2007, 10:27 AM) View Post

While I know this does pertain exactly to the CTD trucks, I thought I would pass it on.

I spoke with my dad a few days back. He told me that they have lost 4 bus engines with the new low emmission oil. He tells me since the first failure that was clearly lubrication related, they have been trying to come up with a solution.

Synthetic is completely out of the question and also has some of the same issues as the dino oil. The best solution to date is some specific additives. While testig is underway, he feels they have hurt as many as 50% or more of the engines with the new oils.

So, it's not completely scientific. But, he has noticed an immediate problem.

Keep your eyes open and hopefully some additives will be made available.

Dave




Could it be from changing the formulation mid-use??? How many miles did these buses have on them when they changed to CJ-4???

I have a couple UOAs of Rotella CJ-4...my wear metals and TBN at nearly 10k are really good. Iron was 24ppm on a 10k run with temps ranging from 80*F+ to -20*F...the last one, from this summer, with 8k had iron at 11ppm...and everything else look fine.

I hope this isn't the signs of things to come...

steved


#12 BTighe

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 06:54 PM

the big R store out here has the valvoline cummins oil with the CI4 rating. gonna get a few cases soon here.

#13 wcjp

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 09:47 PM

QUOTE(BTighe @ Oct 18 2007, 11:54 PM) View Post

the big R store out here has the valvoline cummins oil with the CI4 rating. gonna get a few cases soon here.



I'm not that bright. Could you PM me with the full name of the "R" store? Also, is the CI4 rated oil cheaper than the CJ4 oil.

#14 BTighe

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 10:04 PM

LMAO! sorry dude, thats the name. Big R. its where the pirates shop biggrin.gif here you go. i think its a hair under 10 bucks a gallon.

http://www.big-r.com/

Edited by BTighe, 18 October 2007 - 10:05 PM.


#15 SlyBones

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Posted 18 October 2007 - 11:08 PM

CI / CJ, um I forget which one is which? ( I can read either )

#16 steved

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 06:36 AM

QUOTE(SlyBones @ Oct 18 2007, 11:08 PM) View Post

CI / CJ, um I forget which one is which? ( I can read either )



CI-4 is the old stuff (pre-07 non-emission), the CJ-4 is the latest stuff (for the DPF on the newer engines like the 6.7L)...

CI-4+ has been around since 04.5 (?) and it is thought to be the best oil by most of the diesel guru's. However, the oil forums believe the most current CJ-4 rotella is the closest a conventional oil has came to giving synthetic-like results...it is highly regarded on BITOG.

As I already noted...I have just two UOAs of CJ-4, and neither looked scary by any means. There was recently another owner that went 25k on his CJ-4 rotella, and other than it thickened up (soot), the wear metals looked fine for a interval that long.

Until I read this thread about oil-related failures, most people were beginning to think the CJ-4 wasn't that bad.

steved

#17 sbiel

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 07:08 AM

not that I am a fan of snake oil promising additives, but has anybody tried adding a good quality additive (maybe lucas) ??

I know it helps on engines with low oil pressure (I speak from experience), just wondering if the additives can help otherwise ?

thanks,
steve


#18 carl20320

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 07:58 AM

QUOTE(BTighe @ Oct 18 2007, 05:54 PM) View Post

the big R store out here has the valvoline cummins oil with the CI4 rating. gonna get a few cases soon here.


Make really certain it IS CI4 and not CJ4. The Valvoline Premium Blue has been switched to CJ4. They are still making the CI4+ but selling it under the name Premium Blue Classic.

If the label says CJ4 anywhere on it, it it CJ4. The SAE seal on the back of the CJ4 version has CI4+ in the lower half. Kind of confusing if you ask me.

Carl



#19 Packards42

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:13 AM

CJ4 version has CI4+ in the lower half. Kind of confusing if you ask me.

that marketing saying it meet both standards. but they taken something out.

#20 carl20320

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Posted 19 October 2007 - 08:58 AM

QUOTE(Packards42 @ Oct 19 2007, 07:13 AM) View Post

CJ4 version has CI4+ in the lower half. Kind of confusing if you ask me.

that marketing saying it meet both standards. but they taken something out.


They have taken something out ... a lot of something... like a significant amount of the additive package.




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